?

Log in

tribalheathenry

We were here first!

Oct. 8th, 2007 | 11:23 am
posted by: mister_bitters in tribalheathenry

Happy Leif Eriksson Day!

Don't forget to remind everyone that we were here 500 years before Columbus!

Link | Rist A Response | Share

tribalheathenry

defriended me? How did you get on my f-list in the first place. x-posted to my own journal.

Oct. 3rd, 2007 | 06:57 pm
mood: amusedamused
posted by: coba1t_blue in tribalheathenry

Hmmm got defriended by one of those people who ended up on my friends list from some way I don't know.  However, if you start wondering why there is strife in your life, and whether or not Mars is in retrograde to cause it while pledging yourself of Lokean ways, don't get mad if someone points out the obvious.  I really don't have time for stupidity.

Danny

Link | Rist A Response 2 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

Scope of Tribalism

Sep. 21st, 2007 | 05:57 pm
posted by: benignintent in tribalheathenry

Greetings!

I am a member of a relatively new kindred. Since our inception, we have been exploring, and attempting to define who we are. We to have an identity that reflects our aspirations to what we feel heathenry is, as individuals and as a group. The pan Germanic Asatru kindred is too broad. We are not AFA'ers, AA'ers or Trothers. We want to honor the Gods and Ancestors in a manner that isn't influenced by standard neo-pagan fare.

So we research, we explore, and we experience. Gerd Groenewold, in an essay entitled "Why Tribalism?" defines tribalism as

"A tribe, as we understand it,consists of people bound together by blood or by oath, with clearly delineated and meaningful customs and rites, attitude and values in common. In order to be certain that our tribe indeed has the aforementioned things in common, we make joining difficult. In order to maintain these things, we give those we judge most capable the responsibility of maintaining them, responsibilities that can range from the esoteric or spiritual to the intellectual and scholarly to the mundane"

This pretty much lays out what we expect from a group construct. We seem to have the basic foundations in place. We are Continental Germanic in focus. We are working on delineating our common thews and rites. We are bound together by oath.

We see ourselves as tribalist. But we are not theodish, although we have great respect for the Theodsmen and women that we have met. The idea of a sacral king or leader isn't an aspect of Heathenry that is a part of our Folkway. Although our bylaws set up the founding members as almost a ruling council, we share the work, share the responsibility. The founding members take turns in leading our rites. We have structured expectations and time frames for new members, to ensure that we want them in our Kindred, and that they understand who and what we are, as a group.

Question: Am I/we understanding tribalism correctly? Or is tribalism and Theodism synonymous?
Does anyone here have experience with tribalism from a non Theodish perspective? Again, I am not dissing the Theodish. I just recognize that I am not. I want to make sure that we are respecting the work that they have done, without lifting/stealing/appropriating what is uniquely theirs.

please excuse the crossposting if you see this somewhere else. I am going to crosspost to my LJ, and possibly OM or Heathen Thing.

Frith,

benignintent

Link | Rist A Response 8 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

Branching off - "Import(ing) Cultural Influences"

Aug. 30th, 2007 | 10:30 pm
posted by: thorolf in tribalheathenry

I've been mulling over a line ouf ot winterlion's post on Good Heathens:

 <i>IMHO "bad heathens" are both the ones who import cultural influences from outside the heathen world and make them home - but also those who stereotype the "heathen" title too far, making it into a "club of like minded hosers".</i>

Out of curiosity and for the sake of discussion, where are we drawing the lines on "outside the heathen world" on this one? I know some folks are narrowing focus to particular Germanic groups (Frisians, for example), while others acknowledge historical cultural borrowings from Celts, Saami, and even the Romanii. We know that our our ancestors went further afield physically (Canada, Istanbul, Kiev)... and there's physical evidence of 'repurposed' items (bracteates made out of Roman and Arabic coins) - is it really so much of a stretch to think of our ancestors considering ideas that they were exposed to on their raiding/merchanting trips? Or us, for that matter - given the rather different nature of our own cultural borders?

After all - in most cases, we've defined those borders ourselves. I don't know too many folks who grew up in a village, raided for a few years, and then settled back down in the same rural area they grew up in - so the whole notion of 'outside the heathen world' is a little different for us than for them to begin with...

Link | Rist A Response 4 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

the price of a bad name

Jul. 8th, 2007 | 10:32 am
mood: contemplativecontemplative
posted by: coba1t_blue in tribalheathenry

I'm finding myself drawing further and further away from the Alabama Heathen group- mainly because they seem to be icluding someone with a bad reputation in the heathen community more and more.  I've never met the woman who goes by the name Yngona, but I do know she has a reputation of being divisive, and of being something of a drama queen.  There is bad blood between her and at least three of my heathen friends, and I prefer to follow the teachings of Har than take a chance of putting up with all the drama: 



Besides, everything I've read from her on several sites and things I've heard about her from heathens of good reputation, tells me that she's not someone with whom I would want to mix my orlog.

Danny

Link | Rist A Response | Share

question

Mar. 23rd, 2007 | 08:44 am
mood: aggravatedaggravated
posted by: just_sigrun in tribalheathenry

In your opinion, what would constitute nithling behavior?

And, what to do about it?

x-posted to allfathers_own
x-posted to lokeans
x-posted to badheathens

Link | Rist A Response 1 Risting | Share

new community alert

Mar. 9th, 2007 | 04:11 pm
mood: goodgood
music: "Pagan Poetry", Bjork
posted by: just_sigrun in tribalheathenry

Hi.

I am extending an open invitation to whosoever will to join as_heathens, my new community (guess who else maintains it...). It is a community for Anglo-Saxon Heathens (whether they be Theodish or non-Theodish), and those interested in Anglo-Saxon Heathenry, to discuss topics of relevant interest.

FWIW, I do not at all consider myself an expert in A-S Heathenry... I learn something new every day, I am willing to learn from others.

Welga,
Siggy :)

x-posted all over the place

Link | Rist A Response | Share

tribalheathenry

Insight (and incite) can come from the most unexpected places

Oct. 21st, 2006 | 08:14 am
mood: contemplativecontemplative
posted by: coba1t_blue in tribalheathenry

Was having a discussion on a totally unrelated topic on another board when somene asked me if I thought Balder's death was a paralllel to Christ's death. Then it hit me. Balder's death and Odin' whispering into his ear on the funeral pyre was Odin's way of insuring his own and the other God's returning to Earrth after Ragnarok. He wasn't whispering, he was placing the seed of his own and the others' soul to be held safely in Helheim until after Ragnarok. Then from that seed when Balder is released can the other Gods rise again. Of course we have no idea what happens to the Keeper of Cats during Ragnarok, but I get the feeling that since she has her own army, she manages just fine.


Danny

Link | Rist A Response 4 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

Discussing Tribalism

Jun. 3rd, 2006 | 12:34 am
posted by: mister_bitters in tribalheathenry

First off, let me say that I dislike the sentiment that this is "neo-tribalism." I've met exactly zero heathens who ascribe to a Tribalist ideal that actually fits with this rather pejorative term. It would be more accurate to say that this is a point of view rather than an ideological faction. As is, we have enough of those and are in need of no more. I also want to note that it is my opinion that Theodsmen are Tribalists, but that this does not work in reverse. I won't attempt to discuss Theodisc ideals as I'm not a Theodsman. I'll leave that up to someone who is.

So, now that I've tried to say what Tribalist ideals are not, let me try and define with some certainty what they are. As I said, it would be best to describe it as a point of view more than anything else. One of my major criticisms of modern heathen behavior is a wanna-be Viking machismo. It should be obvious my opinion of that. But it is this view that I think has dominated heathen redevelopment for far too long. This isn't the fault of the people so much as a limitation set by source material early on. We've come to a point in time where our understanding of Nordic, Germanic, and Anglo-Saxon culture is not limited to a perception of the Viking raider. This is where I see Tribalist understanding coming from.

Instead of the glory-hound warrior raiding a village, we now understand with much greater certainty the nature of the home life of the Nordic, Anglo-Saxon, and Germanic peoples. Most importantly, we have gained a far better understanding of the importance of family, clan, and tribal bonds. It is this understanding that Tribalists will assert that we must analyze the data we have. I will attempt to address Nordic matters as it is what I know best. I hope others will speak on Anglo-Saxon and German issues.

When dealing with the Norse we have to put aside the idea of the lone wolf raider seeking glory and look to the normalcy of daily living at home. When we look at Denmark, Norway, and Sweden, we see that life revolved around the axis of the family. Not just the nuclear family most of us recognize now, but also the extended family and clan all the way up to tribal associations. Early in the Viking Age there were several clans, but we only talk about a few of them as the strongest of the clans absorbed them and then grew into nations. It is at the clan and tribe that we must now look, and remember that it was during the Viking Age that the Scandinavian nations were formed.

To understand Tribalist thinking you must look at the way the family, clan, and tribe behaved. One of the best concepts revived today is that of 'thew.' I do not know of the Old Norse word for it, so I will use the Anglo-Saxon word. Thew is really a very simple concept to understand. A thew is a custom or accepted (or acceptable) behavior within the context of the tribe or clan. It is, in short, the social normative of any group. It is my understanding that it is the various theods that we must thank for bringing this word back into the light. I place thew as one of the major factors in Tribalist thought.

The other prime factor I see is the superiority of the tribe over the individual. What I mean by this is that the health and well-being of the entire tribe, clan, or family is more important than that of the individual. This is not to discount the individual in any way, but it is to say that actions are considered best if they also benefit the tribe, clan, or family and that any action that takes away from this shared health is not to be tolerated. It is why in Iceland it was not illegal for families to punish by death one of their own. This is no way an endorsement of some Communist ideal, but rather a practicality of survival. The tribe must survive above all else.

When you understand these two points you have a better look at Tribalist ideals. Unlike the derision spat out previously, it is not some neo-Tribalist agenda of recreating or creating new "tribes" to replace some romantic notion of the past. Rather, it is an endorsement of an idea most people might recognize as vital to behavior in Western cultures. Each group, regardless of how it calls itself, its internal structure, or rules is a sovereign entity subject only to the members of that group (within the limits of the law of the land). This is to say that The Troth has no right, authority, or capacity to dictate to the AFA how they will do anything. On a smaller level, this is true of any kindred. If one kindred chooses not to recognize others as their folk, no one outside that kindred has the ability to make them acknowledge them in any capacity. For some this can be abused in the obvious contention over race, but to the Tribalist, it doesn't matter what any group of folk believe. Outsiders have no authority. They are simply "not of the folk" of that group. As a personal note, this is why I do not refer to other heathens as folk in a general term. I do not believe in "the folk" but rather in "my folk."

So how does one define their folk? This is where people often get caught up as so many people have a near allergic reaction to exclusivity. To a Tribalist, a person's folk are their kindred, their family, and in my opinion the families of the members of their kindred as well as any oath-bonded alliances with other kindreds. It is the third point that often causes the most contention, and as I said, is my personal opinion. It has limits however. That limit is where people choose to place it, however. I would like to try and illustrate this using my own kindred.

We consist of two "hearths" (not a formal term, but a turn of phrase that signifies married couples with and without children and any other family) and two individuals, me and my betrothed. When she and I marry we would be our own "hearth" and the kindred would then be comprised of three "hearths." The two that currently exist are comprised as follows: The first belongs to our steward and is made up of him, his wife, and their son. The second is comprised of our memory singer, his wife, and is blood-sworn sister. It is in this way that we are what you could refer to as a "mini-tribe." In the short future this "mini-tribe" will consist of three "mini-clans." These people are the smallest group that I define as my folk. I extend consideration to nuclear family relatives of all members, however. They aren't my folk, per se, but they are treated well because they are kin to someone who is my folk. An extension and widening of their "mini-clan," if you will. Now, if we as a group, decided to formally bond our kindred, and our luck, with another kindred those people would also be my folk. These two bonded kindreds would now be their own "mini-tribe" together with each kindred now a "mini-clan" and then each "hearth" within each kindred would be like the separate families of the clans. Given to scale, this is how the old tribes worked, but also with some form of shared ancestry as well. That shared ancestry, I believe, developed later as the clans and tribes grew in size.

So, as you can see, Tribalism isn't so much about some romantic notion of preconception but more of a matter of perspective on practicality. It is through this lens that I think we will better understand and revive the ways of the past rather than through the egoism of the glorified individual. The center of heathen life then was the family and its extensions. Tribalists I know believe that it is this way that we should be doing things and how we can best understand the past.

Link | Rist A Response 6 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

Tribal lands, proximity, group identity, and loss.

Feb. 22nd, 2006 | 05:44 am
posted by: mister_bitters in tribalheathenry

In doing some work on the concepts of tribal identity, one of the factors I have seen discussed is the requirement of land as part of the tribal identity. This land is either where the tribe has historically called their own, whether or not they are currently in control of it or not, or it might be the land upon which they currently reside if they have been relocated. It seems to me that connection to the land a people have historically dwelt upon allows for a sense of continuity with the past and their ancestors; this is really the only major factor for those of us in a modern world where we are not subsisting upon the animals and plants of the region but rather on purchased goods. This leads to the value of the second association. Rather than looking to an historic dwelling site, these people look at the land they now occupy as the tangible expression of their tribal bonds, namely proximity to one another.

I have noticed that within heathenry, the groups that have attempted to reestablish tribal identity have done so in a manner that allows for folks to opt out if things go in a way they dislike. Effectively, they have been religious organizations with a core group of members and a fluctuating outer membership. I am not faulting these groups, but rather note that this behavior is part and parcel to a very modern behavior regarding the mindset that if you do not like something you are free to abandon it at any time with no abject responsibility or undue influence upon yourself. In the case of the proto-tribes I see forming should they last longer than the ambitions of their founders, I see an essential need that has yet to be met and is likely to deter further member from joining for fear of strangeness and cultic behaviors.

What I mean here is that in order for these tribes to grow there and firmly cement their existence, they are by necessity going to have to require willing relocation of members to a jointly owned property. This is not because the land binds us, but rather through the land we bind ourselves. The predominant failing I see for the near future is the lack of mundane influences on proto-tribal life. As it is, the single most unifying factor for these groups is not proximity and commonality, but rather the internet. It is this tool that has allowed the message to be spread, the idea to take form, and the foundational work to commence, but it will not sustain the life of the group. For this, the people must be bound together in communal identity. This requires land for development, housing, and education. It will only be through group identity that goes beyond membership in a religiously oriented organization that true tribes will evolve. When leaving the group, the tribe, means more than cutting association but comes to mean the loss of your home, then membership will not only have the inherent weight needed to impress upon the mind that the individual is a part of something greater than they, it will come to mean a true group identity. When leaving your people means the loss of normality, then and only then, will the next step towards reestablishing the tribes have been taken.

Link | Rist A Response 4 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

Exclusivity

Dec. 14th, 2005 | 02:00 pm
posted by: mister_bitters in tribalheathenry

I have noticed that there are very few people out there who are not bothered by the thought of exclusivity within the context of their religion. It occurs to me that our way of doing things inherently requires a sense of exclusivity. The way I see it, to be heathen is to walk a single path, not an attempt to stradle between different cultures and their ways. What we do requires us to be fully dedicated to a single way of living. A man can only have one master, as it were.

Link | Rist A Response 29 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

RIP Vine Deloria, Jr.

Nov. 30th, 2005 | 12:52 pm
mood: thoughtfulthoughtful
music: "Look At Your Son Now", the F-Ups
posted by: thorolf in tribalheathenry

Vine Deloria Jr. died last week. For those of us who are thrashing over ideas about Tribalism, this is significant - since several of those ideas can be traced back to Vine Deloria's God Is Red, in which he set out to (among other things) redefine the term "tribalism" as a positive thing, rather than a somewhat pejorative descriptor of a lifestyle that Hobbes dismissed as "nasty, brutish, and short".

Mind you, I haven't reread God Is Red in quite a while, though since tribalism seems to be catching on as a concept, it's probably high time for me to do so. I remember being put off by a few of Deloria's ideas (and his more recent criticisms of the Bering land-bridge migration theories seem to me to be a little short-sighted, but I'm somewhat biased, since I work with geologists and anthropologists), but I don't remember specifically what those were - which means he probably hit a nerve, and it would be worth my time to find out if I still believe the same things I did back when...

Link | Rist A Response 7 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

Accepting new members

Nov. 20th, 2005 | 03:29 pm
posted by: mister_bitters in tribalheathenry

My kindred is in the process of figuring out what this process is going to be like for us, as we are settling arrangements for the welcoming of a new member to the group. While we were formed officially through oaths sworn during sumbel, we have decided that all new members will go through an acceptance rite. I am curious as to how you folks do things and what ideas you might have for the creation of such a rite for a small tribe like ours.

Link | Rist A Response 9 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

Right action, wrong action, no action

Nov. 8th, 2005 | 07:48 pm
mood: contemplativecontemplative
posted by: coba1t_blue in tribalheathenry

aracos and I had a conversation a few years ago about actions that has stuck with me. I would like to the core of that conversation here: There are right actions, wrong actions, and no actions- of these three, no action is the worst possible choice. Using the analogy of basketball (mainly because it's really been on my mind, feet, and back, and every other body part lately). If you are playing zone defense, you have one of the three choices. You can stay in your zone and cover the area you are supposed to cover and keep the ball from advancing toward the goal. That would be RIGHT action. If you were to see an opening to steal the ball and left your zone, you may steal the ball and get a chance for your team to score, or you may leave your zone open, fail and allow the other team to score. That would be WRONG action. The third option is to simply stand there and do nothing. In this case your zone WILL be open and the other team WILL score- the worst possible outcome. That would be NO action. So with right action, you have a good outcome. With wrong action, you have the opportunity for a good or a bad outcome. However with no action you give up any control yourself or the situation and and become a victim. This is ALWAYS a bad outcome.

Any thoughts?

Link | Rist A Response 6 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

The Boar

Nov. 6th, 2005 | 05:38 am
posted by: mister_bitters in tribalheathenry

During a program on Animal Planet there was a comment made by the program host about how the Celtic peoples used to revere the boar as the perfect warrior because it was thought to be fearless, unyielding, and completely without remorse or regret. This got me to thinking a bit about how the Norse might have seen the same animal, and especially how the Swedes saw the boar. I mention the Swedes in particular because FreyR was believed to be the patron god of the Svear, or the Swedes, and from what we can tell, his most precious treasure was the boar Gullinbursti and most commonly associated animal was the boar. While the saga of Hrafnakel Freysgothi gives us the story of the horse Freyfaxi, I know of no evidence that marks the horse as particularly sacred to FreyR. I'm unsure of the exact source (I believe it is Ynglingasaga), but it appears that among the Swedes, it was a common practice to swear new oaths during the Yuletide upon a pig or boar sacrificed to FreyR prior to preperation for cooking. Additionally, there appears to be evidence that the boar was an animal that seems to have acquired some sort of mythic warrior role, like the bear with the berserkers, in the remains of masks as well as boar masks being one of the less understood finds in other areas, possibly relating to Yuletide celebrations again.

I mention all of this as a prelude to the following questions. What role do you think animal imagery played among our ancestors? In what ways might you revive such roles in modern times and in what ways, if any, do you see this linking us to the ancient tribes and clans of our ancestors? What role does animal imagery play to you and within your own groups?

Link | Rist A Response 4 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

(no subject)

Nov. 1st, 2005 | 02:13 pm
mood: contemplativecontemplative
posted by: coba1t_blue in tribalheathenry

Someone posted something similar to this on another board to which I'm currently a pseudomember, but it got me to thinking. As tribalist, we tend to be a little more conservative in how we see the world and the lore. I was wondering how many of us on THIS board practice some form of magic/galdr/spae or whatever. I know I practice galdr and a rather ectlectic blend of folk magic as it was preserved in the Appalachian mountains, with a heavy dose of general folklorish types of magic. I tend to go more in for something that someone can show some anthropological evidence that it was actually done than the generic Diana Paxton/D. J. Conway/Raven Silverwolf/ neopagan stuff out there.

Link | Rist A Response 5 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

what are your views on mysticism?

Oct. 28th, 2005 | 12:33 pm
posted by: neohippie in tribalheathenry

I just finished reading Why God Won't Go Away, which is a really intersesting book by some neroscientists who basically believed that it's hardwired into our brains to be mystical, and that's why mysticism of various sorts has been found in cultures all over the world.

It also remined me of the contraversey surrounding mysticism in heathenism. It seems like some heathens like to do mystical things, calling them "seith" or "spae" or "Norse shamanism" or things like that. Then other heathens get mad and call those heathens "Wiccatru", and say they're making things up that aren't founded on the lore.

I also recently read a book on seith. I forgot the title, but I found it at the library. It was written by an anthropologist (so it was nice and scholarly), and she talked to a bunch of people from the Hrafnar group in California. It sounded like they knew what they were doing, and they didn't seem "fluffy", at least not from the interviews in the book.

Personally, I think I've always been a pretty mystical person. My family isn't religious, so I struggle with doubt a lot, wondering if it's silly to believe in gods and spirits and stuff. I really like it when something really amazing happens that makes me really feel the gods are real, instead of just trying to have some sort of blind faith in them.

What do you guys think about this? Do you think that things like trancework and "journeying" and meditation have a place in heathenry? Or do you think all that stuff is Wiccan-influenced and not authentic?

Link | Rist A Response 20 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

Orlog and Wyrd

Oct. 28th, 2005 | 02:37 am
posted by: mister_bitters in tribalheathenry

My understanding of these concepts is still rather limited, despite how much I try to learn. I have a feeling I need to find a copy of The Well and the Tree as it seems to be the seminole work on these concepts, but until then, I'm just going to pick brains.

As I understand it, orlog is the accumulation of all past actions. Personal orlog being the accumulations of all the past actions of yours and your family, clan, and tribe. It is, effectively, the history upon which we stand when looking towards the future. As such, it sets forth a result from which we must opperate while also dealing with the continued laying of orlog that is done not only by our actions but the actions of our family, clan, and tribe.

It is this expression of orlog that I understand to be wyrd. Orlog is the foundation, but it is our wyrd that is orlog in action, defining the choices we can now make based on the outcome of choices made before, some of which are ours and others are those of our family, clan, and tribe.

I am looking for the insight of others on just how accurate I am in my understanding of these things.

Link | Rist A Response 5 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

pondering

Oct. 27th, 2005 | 01:13 pm
mood: anxiousanxious
posted by: savannahdreamer in tribalheathenry

When I started my journey into heathenism I was very much Unaversalist and very afraid of getting tarred with the brush of racizm, or getting dressed down by the 'real' heathens for not being good enugh. The further I move ont his path I realize that I am of a much more tribalist mindset, at least as I have come to understand it, but that I have no kindred and a small personal family group of whom only one are Heathen and he is more Wiccatru. So I have some questions and I thought I'd post them here.

1) what is hte tribalist stance on racism? Is there one? I have been told may times that tribalists or folkish heathens are racist neonazis - I am certainly not going to take this at face value, as obviously the people I have talked with here are not.

2) Can I be tribalist wiht out having a tribe or a kindred of like minded people?

Link | Rist A Response 2 Ristings | Share

tribalheathenry

Odin cameo!

Oct. 23rd, 2005 | 10:02 pm
mood: amusedamused
posted by: ldhummingbird in tribalheathenry

The Allfather (at least, I think that's Him) appears in the foreground of the first panel of today's Something Positive. www.somethingpositive.net

Link | Rist A Response 2 Ristings | Share